The community based on the iPersonic personality test.

Surnames

Should people have surnames?
Should women keep their names or change their names after marriage?

I think the purpose of a name is to identify a person; a name without a surname would still do this. Children are not little tails of fathers; neither are women of their partners. People should be known for who they are; not for whose who they are.

In countries like mine, where caste system is operational, people can tell the caste with the surname; many people change the surname in adult life because they have faced a lot of unfair treatment due to this. Fortunately, in educated youth it doesn't play a big role.

Women grow up in their name, have exam certificates, jobs etc. in that name, and are known to friends and others in their original name. Then all of a sudden, they become a new person; their friends may not recognize it's their friend if they saw the new name appearing somewhere; they have to go through the inconvenience of changing all documents, identity cards etc. in the new name. Above all, it has a very sexist basis; males retain their name as well as the title; why should women lose their identity? It's discrimination.

What do you think?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Patrice on April 30, 2009 at 9:45pm: No, I wouldn't agree. Of course, one name would last to identify someone, but the combination of at least two names is way more variable. A family is a more or less close connection between people. If you remove the surname, there would still be the family in the background of a person.

The caste system is something I can't really imagine in daily life, though I understand the issue of course. I see the various negative sides, but I think it would be wrong to blame names. This system is caused by tradition and culture. The names who tell you the caste are just a tool, but not the reason.

It's also just a tradtition that women take on their man's name. Nobody forces them to do it (where I live, of course) and there has been many cases where it was different. In general the result is the same, but that's because the mothers did it this way and their mothers, too and so on. For me personally, I think it's no discrimination, but I don't know the situation in your country. But I suppose you wanted the subjective opinions.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by nalini on May 1, 2009 at 9:00am: Thanks, Patrice. Can I know your view on a few more details?
1. If a name has 2 or 3 parts, except surname, do you think a surname is still necessary? ( I have 3 parts, and no surname, and I'm yet to find another with at least 2 out of it together.) The point is, surnames can be common to many people while one can choose/create enough other names.
2. If there was a rule that says, "All non-Germans who marry a German should acquire the German surname and their children should get the German surname." would you agree? Or would you feel this is discrimination against non-German males? If it's the second, what's the difference you see between females and these non-German males?
3. This is actually not directly related to the initial topic, but do you think we should agree to everything our parents and their parents and grand parents did, just because it's so far an unquestioned tradition? At least some of us want gay marriages to be allowed though it has been traditionally not allowed, if I may elaborate this point.

(Yes, in my country some conservative people try to force a surname on everybody, even when this doesn't appear on birth certificate( as in my case), and force women to acquire partner's name when the women wish to keep their own name. And the surname is used to discriminate kids born out of wed-lock. My name has been changed by many people in official documents and identity cards/driving license, either adding my father's name/ changing my last name in to a male name etc. And I have to fight back, because they don't accept my name, which serves its purpose.); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Patrice on May 1, 2009 at 10:28am: Of course, I'll tell you my opinions about that:
1. Well, my image of a full name has a somewhat strict order. For personal issues, the first name/s is/are used zu identify a person. But officially, the surname is more important. The question is: what's a surname and what's a first name? The problem of self created names is that some people may don't recognize them as names. If you would have several first names in Germany, it would be usual to pick one "main name" and the others you could either abbreviate to a single letter or leave them out. But the surname is always there. There are no people without surnames here.
2. This example you've given to me would be discrimination, yes. And I don't see a difference between females and non-Germans by law. But as I said, there isn't such a rule existing. Maybe as a convention. But IF there would be such a law, I would not agree.
3. No, I think you got me wrong. I'd never say we should agree on everything our parents did. In contrast, we should question it always. I haven't told you in my last post how I think it's fine, but how's the reality. Look, it's the same with gentleman habits. It's an old convention, but the people still want them to be taken as rules. You're not nice if you don't help the women out of her jacket. :D But isn't that a sexism base, too? Generally said, yes, but since these is the comfortable part, it's not seen as such a bad thing. Do you know what I mean?

I didn't know about that situation in your country. I think that's hard, because they're using names to discriminate. Now I understand why it's so important to you.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Atila Paton on May 3, 2009 at 2:30am: Well... Leaving cultural aspects aside, I believe in freedom, if you want to maintain or change your name, why not, go ahead. You don't need to abide to something that's derogatory to you or opresses you. That being said, I'd love to see a world with more equal share between men and women.; ▶ Reply to This