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Hitting women
Hi there,
I was wondering what the lot of you are thinking about what it means if a guy hits a woman? The first question of course would be what constitutes hitting but what I am aiming for is rather to put a price tag on such an action and if possible justify it.
Personally I do think hitting women in its perception is almost an absolute and thus removed from discussion. How is a guy hitting a woman different from, say a class bully hitting another guy? Yet why would we react so differently in these two instances, how is this difference justified?
With violence by women on the rise will this affect this matter at all?
Clarification:
with price tag I am referring to a measurement relative to other crimes. Just like a judge who has to evaluate the gravity of a crime in order to determine the sentence. I just have a feeling that hitting a woman is one of these matters where we think relative terms do not apply and thus they become absolutes and absolutes is just another word for dogma.
Il Principe
I was wondering what the lot of you are thinking about what it means if a guy hits a woman? The first question of course would be what constitutes hitting but what I am aiming for is rather to put a price tag on such an action and if possible justify it.
Personally I do think hitting women in its perception is almost an absolute and thus removed from discussion. How is a guy hitting a woman different from, say a class bully hitting another guy? Yet why would we react so differently in these two instances, how is this difference justified?
With violence by women on the rise will this affect this matter at all?
Clarification:
with price tag I am referring to a measurement relative to other crimes. Just like a judge who has to evaluate the gravity of a crime in order to determine the sentence. I just have a feeling that hitting a woman is one of these matters where we think relative terms do not apply and thus they become absolutes and absolutes is just another word for dogma.
Il Principe
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Atanua on -
Most of these men are well aware of the fact, that most women are weaker than men. Most of them would never have the guts to hit someone who is on the same physically level. It's the same with hitting other people...there is nothing as easy as starting a fight when you already know that you are going to win...men, well women too, who use violence to "solve" a conflict never learned the right way to do it...and without a therapist it is hard to break this circle.
Sure it doesn't mean that if you have been involved in a fight once that your are always like that...it can happen, but it should be the last solution on the list, if you get what I mean.
I'm not really into this price tag thing, because in my opinion it discriminates others. Guy beating a woman, woman beating a guy, guy hitting a guy etc. Where is the diffrence, except that most of the victims are female? One gets hurt physically and mentally, the sex shouldn't play such a big role in the way the society handles this. Unfortunately it does, because if you're male and abused by your woman, no one believes you, they call you a chicken and that's it. The same with a guy getting slaped in the face by his girlfriend in public...most of us think "well I don't know what he did, but I'm sure she's right...". Imagine the opposite situation...the girl is always right! This is also a sort of discrimination. And with violence by women on the rise, this difference between female violence and male violence must dissappear, because as I already said it is discriminating. But before this can happen, other stereotypes need to be destroyed...mostly the one, that a guy who gets beaten by a girl is just a pussy...
The only price tag you can put on is the dimension of the physical damage and in cases of regular violence the emotional damage also needs to be evaluated. Then you can maybe also compare it to other crimes.
Ahhh,what a rant XD I'm off to learn plant genetics...and sorry for my english.
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Permalink Reply by Marcel Heyne on -
I must admit that I already has some discussion with the author via email, since I didn't get his intentions. At first, I didn't even understand where he was heading ...
Oh, and we didn't agree ... ;-)
For me, any violence against women is a way of stabilizing the patriarchical system. That constitutes the main difference between violence against women and female violence against men. So it's really not about juridical price tags. It's about changing the system.
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Permalink Reply by Prince of lies on -
so what you are saying is, the cause justifies the means? Changing the system usually requires a revolution of sorts and they have a tendency to overshoot. A genuine positive revolution knows its own limits and that is what I am grappling with, as they say “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”
Il Principe
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Permalink Reply by Prince of lies on
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If you had to be sorry for your English, most of us might never recover from being sorry for our version of what we call English.
”Guy beating a woman, woman beating a guy, guy hitting a guy etc. Where is the difference”, exactly my point – but by putting a price tag on something one is confronted with this discrimination since having two price tags, one for women and one for men, feels kind of wrong (other than getting a haircut ;o) )
”And with violence by women on the rise, this difference between female violence and male violence must dissappear, because as I already said it is discriminating. But before this can happen, other stereotypes need to be destroyed...mostly the one, that a guy who gets beaten by a girl is just a pussy”
Unfortunately there comes the point where I have to ask myself how many of these stereotypes are hard-wired into us, in other words if we do discard these inequalities, aren’t we also loosing some aspect of our humanity … ? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like these differences.
Il Principe
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Permalink Reply by kova on -
I will say this, I am fine with a push (since I do so to men). Most of the time it's a playful jab or so. I try to exercise limits and hope others would as well. But like a bully beating up on some one, there are lines that should not crossed. Both should not be accepted on a constant basis. Problem is most people get away with it.
The real problem is that people think that hitting someone else (be it female or male) is the worse think one can do another. It's not. Emotional abuse is just as bad. True emotional abuse can follow physical abuse, but it's tangible. Friends can see a black eye, but wounds of the heart are less so. People suggest that the person being abused is imagining it. It's much harder to image a black eye or a broken arm.
Point is, hitting a woman is similar to a bully hitting someone else emotionally and physically. Both should be dealt with, but the point is it's easier for a woman to say he hit me than a kid who is constantly beat up at school. They are told to deal with it. It's the same with emotional abuse, we are told to deal with it and the problem never gets solved. Both sides become trapped as a result of it.
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Permalink Reply by Prince of lies on
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”Both should not be accepted on a constant basis. Problem is most people get away with it.” – The saying: “who is the greater fool, the fool or the one that follows the fool” comes to mind – that’s not supposed to mean it’s the fault of those who are abused or beaten but rather we should be vigilant in our daily lives, right?
Once I had the opportunity to whiteness a heated discussion between a female friend of mine and her boyfriend, this is just an example and should not be regarded as the rule but just as an aspect. One could observe two vastly different approaches to the “debate”. The boyfriend was much more direct and cumbersome, she was more sneaky in her attacks. He didn’t hit her but under other circumstances the “debate” could have had other results. My point is the debate had a dynamic of its own both sides did not back down even though the boyfriend was eventually cornered and essentially helpless. This helplessness is probably often the reason for physical violence and I wonder what role the “lust for argument” plays in the escalation of the “debate”. Now this is absolutely not an excuse for hitting someone but I know she didn’t always know when to stop her attacks and pressed on with them. Again this doesn’t excuse violence but ignoring it would also be wrong.
This might be a stretch but Zidane’s headbutt against Materrazzi comes to mind …
Link
Il Principe
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Permalink Reply by Atanua on
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@prince of lies
– but by putting a price tag on something one is confronted with this discrimination since having two price tags, one for women and one for men, feels kind of wrong (other than getting a haircut ;o) )
Of course one is confronted with this difference, but what is important is the way how you handle it. Do you act like the rest of the society, or do think before you act, do you question the whole two price tag thing?
Women and men are different, physically and therefore mentally, as a lot of our behaviour (brain structure) is guided by hormones. But in case of beating or other crimes you should be treated as a human being. No difference between those two sexes. Honestly I don't like this female/male structure of our society, it so much pressure for people who don't fit in that role. As an example intersexual people ( about 1 of 2000 newborns has to deal with this) who are born not clearly male or female...but it was the society,well science, who defined what is female or male...but I'm going off-topic
Unfortunately there comes the point where I have to ask myself how many of these stereotypes are hard-wired into us, in other words if we do discard these inequalities, aren’t we also loosing some aspect of our humanity … ? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like these differences.
Watch yourself and also others a bit closer...you will find many stereotypes/prejudices. And yes i think most of them are still really deep in our society...well it's logical as society created it. But this indicates also the possibility of change.
They are not bad, as long everyone really agrees with it. But some don't. The ones who don't fit in ( or don't want to) are often discriminated by those people ( of course you can disagree with some things without discriminating people!)
Of course it is impossible to make men and women equal, because they are not and never will be. But there should be a loosing of these stereotypes , if you get what I mean. And no, I don't think we would loose an aspect of our humanity, we just would add some other aspects.
But in the case of crimes, everyone should be treated equal.
And to avoid physical "arguments" in a relationship...smash a plate against the wall (the wall, not the other person), scream (yes words can also hurt, but...) do whatever. Unfortunately a lot of people learned from a early age on, that violence is a good (the one) "solution". Helplessness doesn't have to end in violence...I'd rather shut up than beating someone, just because I out of arguments/nerves! And in some cases you should realize that it is impossible to talk to each other in a way both are satisfied.
In the situation you described I think both were helpless in their own way. The so called communication problem
Oh and don't forget that there are a lot of sadists around...this also can be reason.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Halpin Jr on -
Real men walk away. Real women walk away for good. I know it's not that simple, but that's what I think. Abuse is abuse and regardless who the abused or abuser are, it's wrong on every level. Period.
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Permalink Reply by April on -
I agree with what you are saying. Regardless of who the person is (male, female, child etc.) it is wrong to take matters into your own hands and hurt them. Even if provoked, a person should be able to restrain his or herself from abusing another, physically or mentally. There is no justification.
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Permalink Reply by Emina on -
I agree with Michael, I don't understand how some people here write essays on this subject.. What is there to think about or talk about, the fact is that HITTING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING is WRONG!!! No one has that right, why classify it?? Men, women or children.. its just wrong and that's it!
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Permalink Reply by Lady Shaman on -
Although I do agree violence is never the answer -- Yes, society does still favor the female when it comes to being "victims". Strangely enough, I do not agree. I mean, back in the 1970's women burnt their bras and demanded equal rights. They wanted equal pay for equal work. Why should this be any different! I think it is a cop out in 2008 to still claim women are the victims! All of that stuff went out the window 30 some odd years ago. I am a woman but I think that a great deal of women instigate these arguments and therefore, more than likely deserved what she got! "You can't have it both ways, baby!"
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Permalink Reply by Christina on -
Men hitting women is wrong. Women hitting men is wrong. Unless you're defending yourself, you shouldn't be violent with another person.
The reason why guys get all the bad press on this issue is because men are physically stronger than women on default so it's very difficult for a woman to defend herself. If a woman runs up and starts hitting on a man, chances are she's only going to proceed to annoy him rather than cause him any realy damage. A man gives a woman one good smack on the jaw and she's bruised on the floor. As the baby of the family and survivng a childhood with four older brothers, I know what I'm talking about.
Hitting a woman should be treated like every other violence charge. Assault and battery or depending upon how severe the beating is, attempted homicide.
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