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marriage
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Felicitas Heyne on -
how about friendship?
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Permalink Reply by noerisa on -
Love n respect each other,understanding,trust,commitment n should be supporting each other for the highest achievement.
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Permalink Reply by Efsun on -
... is nothing but an ideological state apparatus
...forces people to stay together even when they're spiritually/mentally/physically killing each other.
sincere and mutual commitment should be enough instead.
-i think...;)
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Permalink Reply by Felicitas Heyne on
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Hmmm, I disagree a bit from my point of view as a psychologist who works a lot with couples (in Germany, I have to add). I often notice that marriage is the way to express sincere and mutual commitment for them. And the other way round: long-term couples who are not married after several years often find out that one of them has unspoken doubts. I wonder if this is maybe a cultural difference between your and my country? I'd say hardly any person in Germany feels forced to stay together with someone who hurts her or him that badly, no matter whether married or not. Would you tell me a bit about male and female roles in society and about the function of marriage in your country? I have to admit I hardly know anything about this topic .. but I'd like to find out!
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Permalink Reply by Efsun on
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things are probably different in germany than in turkey.
of course, there's no law preventing people from divorce. but, as in many cultures, in turkey divorce is not approved or advised by the society; it demands you remain married as long as you can (for the benefit of the children), which is -to some extent- good advice. why quit in the middle? however, to continue you have to solve the problems, right? some couples are lucky and solve their problems in the end. but others ...some families even forbid divorce: whatever the problem is it remains within the house. and most of the time women are under pressure.
i don't know if you've seen Persepolis... there, it tells of a woman who got divorced. from then on, she becomes the target of men around, like a sexual "object". because she once tasted sex, they're sure she can't do without it; and they make advances to her... it was in iran. it's the same in turkey.
well, most people think marriage is a holy unity, and if that's what they believe, i wouldn't try to change their minds. what i meant above was that marriage is between two people, and the state/society has nothing to do with "who sleeps with who" - as long as it's not a threat to the people. i was surprised to know that "one of them has unspoken doubts" and that's the reason why they didn't get married. perhaps that was because of some material reasons, and if the state didn't intervene their relationship (who gets what in case of a divorce, for instance) s/he wouldn't have doubts.
(mmm.. i shouldn't be judging a case i don't know anything about, sorry)
anyway, whatever i say i say it because i believe it, and i don't want to change anyone's opinion on anything.
......
i think this reply isn't enough to tell you about the fe/male roles in turkey. i guess i'm not in the mood right now =) but i'll think about it and write you something as soon as possible.
(i like this community=)
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Permalink Reply by Felicitas Heyne on
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No, I haven't seen Persepolis, but it's definitely on my list now! And I think I got your point anyway. I wasn't aware of the fact that pressure within turkish society is still that high; this is certainly different in Germany in the meantime. Surely, you have to deal with a lot of problems after a divorce, especially if you have kids, but mostly "practical" ones like financial losses or the questions where the kids should spend the holidays and so one. And many women face the risk of poverty after a divorce, especially if they have little children and cannot or don't want to work full-time. But there is no real public pressure like sticking to a holy unity or something like this any more. Of course, most people regret divorces, but they don't judge people because of that - well, mostly. Considering the fact that in Germany every third, nearly every second marriage ends up in divorce in the meantime, this wouldn't be possible - you'd have to put a stigma on nearly half the population more or less ... ;-)
What I meant when I mentioned the couples with the "unspoken doubts": I get the impression that many people want a relationship so desperately, that they stick together even if they notice after some time that they are very different from each other or they get bored with each other or even unhappy. But they are afraid of being alone, so they cling to the other instead of breaking up. They live together, like a married couple, but they do not "sign the contract", if you know, what I mean. Secretly, they hope they will meet someone better, kind of a soul mate for them, but they don't want to risk the relationship before they have found him - better a bad relationship than no relationship, you see? Sometimes this happens only to one of the partners and the other one is rather happy. The happy one then maybe would like to marry and state his full commitment in this way, but the other one hesitates, trys to find reasons not to marry, says things like "we don't need a paper to seal our love" and so on. If he (or she) were honest, he or she would have to say: "I'm simply not sure enough, whether I want to stay with you for the rest of my life."
Frankly, I do not think you necessarily need a paper to make a real commitment to another person, but I do firmly believe in rituals and their power. I think it takes quite some courage to stand in front of many other people and to declare firmly and loudly: "I do" - it has an effect on the partnership, that's what I meant. But I fully agree to you: we don't necessarily need the state for it. It could be anywhere, anyhow. I know couples who simply held a ceremony among friends, no preacher, no state authoritys, just the way they liked it, and it worked wonderfully. The important thing is the question: do I stand by you and do you stand by me - really, without any doubts and in front of the world, God, the Universe, whatever.
So thxs a lot for sharing your thoughts, I'd love to learn more about it whenever you feel like it. And one other question, too: What do you think about a "women"-group here on iPersonic? Just for female topics, questions around women all over the world, living in different cultures, dealing with different problems and having different dreams and hopes? I'd love that!
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Permalink Reply by Efsun on
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at some point i thought you wrote about me =D
and yes, i can be a part of that group. (i warn you, sometimes i can mock some theoricians, i hope that's ok=)
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Permalink Reply by Felicitas Heyne on
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More than ok, welcome! ;-)
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